Help! Thorin stranded in Atlanta, need help on airline passenger rights

[dreamshark]

thorintatge just called from the Atlanta airport. AirTran has stranded him in Atlanta, claims the can't get him on another flight for THREE DAYS, refuses to pay for transfer to another airline, and won't even pay for a hotel room. The only thing they have offered him is a flight to Milwaukee with the suggestion that he rent a car and drive home from there. I think they offered partial compensation for the rental car, but not sure. They certainly aren't offering to pay for gas. They won't even pay for a hotel room!! Can they do this? I knew air travel was falling apart in this country, but this is ridiculous. Doesn't he have the right to demand that the airline that has taken his money to fly him home actually do so? What are his rights?

Comments

[davidschroth.livejournal.com]

Google shows the following from a government publication:

...If there's a mechanical problem with the plane for your particular flight or if the crew is delayed on an incoming flight, you might be better off trying to arrange another flight, as long as you don't have to pay a cancellation penalty or higher fare for changing your reservations. (It is sometimes easier to make such arrangements from a pay phone than at a ticket counter.) If you find a flight on another airline, ask the first airline to endorse your ticket to the new carrier; this could save you a fare increase. Remember, however, that there is no rule requiring them to do this. If your flight is canceled, most airlines will rebook you on the first flight of theirs to your destination on which space is available, at no additional charge. If this involves a significant delay find out if another carrier has space, and ask the first airline to endorse your ticket. Finding extra seats may be difficult, however, especially over holidays and other peak travel times.

Each airline has its own policies about what it will do for delayed passengers waiting at the airport; there are no federal requirements. If you are delayed, ask the airline staff if they will pay for meals or a phone call. Some airlines, often those charging very low fares, do not provide any amenities to stranded passengers. Others may not offer amenities if the delay is caused by bad weather or something else beyond the airline's control. Contrary to popular belief, airlines are not required to compensate passengers whose flights are delayed or canceled. As discussed in the chapter on overbooking, compensation is required by law only when you are "bumped" from a flight that is oversold.

A call to the office of Representative Peterson (I *think* that's the one with buckets of seniority on the transportation committee) might be in order tomorrow...

[dreamshark.livejournal.com]

That's all I could find. Vague, unhelpful, mealy-mouthed repetition of this same non-information. What it actually says is, the airline can do anything they want, including taking your money and not flying you to your destination.

:-(

[davidschroth.livejournal.com]

I suspect a possibly better suggestion would be to involve the credit card company, assuming the ticket was paid for with a credit card within the last 90 days or so (i.e., if the purchase meets that criteria, call the credit card company and tell them you're disputing the charge because the airline is not providing the service you purchased).

As I read the rules, unless one was bumped from a flight, one has no rights at all. From the description it doesn't sound as if Thorin was bumped.

The suggestion of getting sethb's opinion strikes me as extremely useful.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

I evoked the mighty airline fu of erikvolson, who I bet will advise if he has time.

K.

[soarhead.livejournal.com]

I think its Jim Oberstar who I believe is chairman of the house transportation committee.

[davidschroth.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably correct...

[jolest.livejournal.com]

As far as I can determine (IANAL, but from a quick websearch), there are no enforced federal laws on the subject. However, you may want to first skim the DOT guidelines here:
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publications/flyrights.htm

A lot of what Thorin can and can't expect them to do depends on why they "stranded" him. You can read more details from the Airtran Contract of Carriage manual at: http://www.airtran.com/common/pdf/AirTran_Contract_of_Carriage.pdf

Look at the section labeled "Denied Boarding" about 75% of the way thru the document. According to that, he should have received a written document detailing what kind of compensation(s) he's eligible to receive...

If they refuse to follow the compensation guidelines spelled out in that document, I think Thorin may have a breach-of-contract case. (But again, IANAL...)

In particular you may want to mention sub-sections C and D of that document to Thorin. It reads in part:

"C. Monetary Compensation. This notice explains the airline's obligations and the passenger's rights in the case of an oversold flight, in accordance with regulations of the Department of Transportation (DOT).
[... snip ...]
c) Amount of Denied Boarding Compensation
Passengers who are eligible for denied boarding compensation must be offered a payment equal to the sum of the face values or their itinerary, with a $400 maximum. However, if the airline
cannot arrange "alternate transportation" (see below) for the passenger, the compensation is doubled ($800 maximum). The "value" of the ticket coupon is the one-way fare for the flight shown on the coupon including any surcharge and air transportation tax, minus any applicable discount. All flight coupons including connecting flights to the passenger's final destination or first 4-hour stopover are used to compute the compensation. "Alternate transportation" is air transportation (by an airline licensed by the DOT) or other transportation used by the passenger which, at the time the arrangement is made, arrives at the passenger's next scheduled stopover (of 4 hours or longer) or final destination no later than 2 hours (for flights within U.S. points, including territories and possessions) or 4 hours (for international flights) after the passenger's originally scheduled arrival time.

d) Method of Payment
The airline must give each passenger who qualifies for denied boarding compensation a payment by cash or check for the amount specified above, on the day and place the involuntary denied boarding occurs. However, if the airline arranges alternate transportation for the passenger's convenience that departs before the payment can be made, the payment will be sent to the passenger within twenty-four (24) hours. The air carrier may offer free tickets in place of cash payment. The passenger may, however, insist on the cash payment, or refuse all compensation and bring private legal action."

[dreamshark.livejournal.com]

Interesting info on Denied Boarding Compensation. I suppose that's much more of an issue than it used to be. That's not what happened in this case, though. It was the usual: his first flight was delayed, so he missed his connection (through no fault of his own).

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Was his first flight also on AirTran? Why was it delayed?

K.

[jolest.livejournal.com]

Good luck. Please let us know what happens.

[fuzzygabby.livejournal.com]

That's horrible! Airlines seem to have plummeted in customer service in the last year or so. I was being patient with them, but now I'm fed up and at least considering other options.

Good luck to Thorin! I wish had some advice...

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

Check with Seth Breidbart. He knows quite a bit about this stuff. If you don't have his addy, let me know at charis underscore doula at worldnet dot att dot net and I'll get in touch with him. I suspect that part of the problem is Thorin's relatively young age, and last time I saw him he looked kind of shaggy. They may figure he won't know what his rights are and won't do anything about it. Tell him to document all conversations names, dates, times, content, etc.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I think you may have a point. If they are underestimating Thorin, bad move. Very bad move.

[dreamshark.livejournal.com]

What makes you think that Thorin was treated any differently than all the other passengers on the plane? As far as I can tell, the gate agent was equally rude to all of them, and none of them got flights out either.

[thorintatge.livejournal.com]

Well, actually, I'm pretty sure that even if I'd looked like a wealthy, influential professional, it wouldn't have changed anything when I spoke to the gate agents in Portland or Atlanta or the customer service rep later on. These were just harried people without much authority following ungenerous policies. Maybe if I'd gone to the right place or called the right people and pushed some buttons my age/appearance might have made a difference, but I didn't choose to chance it.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

If this can't be resolved soon, would it be worthwhile looking for fannish/filkish contacts in the Atlanta area who might be willing to help Thorin find accomodation until it can be solved?

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

I asked Rich Brown (well-connected on filk newsgroups) and he posted a request to rec.music.filk. to see if anyone in the Atlanta area can help out. Is there a way for people to contact Thorin directly?

Wait, stop, call off the dogs!!

[dreamshark.livejournal.com]

That was last night - I was just looking for quick answers to the travelers' rights question, not a place for Thorin to stay for the next three days!!!

He's now in a rental car between Milwaukee and Minneapolis. Please tell the people in Atlanta to stop looking for lodging for him!!!!

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Why is he stranded? What part of AirTran's Customer Service statement or Contract of Carriage apply here?

K. [that link also has their customer service contact info]

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

Right, this is the key question. If it's weather or Thorin was late through no fault of AirTran, then he's got a problem. If it's mechanical or random cancellation, AirTran has the problem.

[dreamshark.livejournal.com]

Thorin's original flight out of Portland, ME was delayed so he missed his connection in Atlanta. I'm not sure exactly why the initial flight was delayed. I think Thorin said something about fog in Portland, but I'm not sure.

The question, "Is it due to weather?" is rarely one with a straightforward answer. When there's a huge storm and the whole airport closes down, clearly there's only so much an airline can do. When one flight is slightly delayed in airport #1, but there is no weather problem at all in airport #2, can the airline claim that it is not their problem any more?

Especially when Airport #2 is one of the best connected airports in the country? It's not that airplanes weren't flying out of Atlanta to Minneapolis, it's that AirTran had overbooked their own flights so thoroughly that they couldn't accommodate their stranded passengers and they weren't willing to pay for transfers to other airlines.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

Right. This is a tricky one when the original cause is due to weather (no matter how tenuously).

I think megabus and then a strongly worded letter about the preposterousness of the "three-day" claim in Atlanta is the best bet.

[erikvolson.livejournal.com]

1) Can they do this?

A) Yes, both empirically (they just did) and legally (read the conditions of carriage.) I suspect our lost traveller is on a bucket-shop ticket. This puts him roughly above amoeba on the priority list. The order of the priority lists is dictated by two factors -- what status, how much did you pay for the ticket?

2) What about expenses?

A) Explicitly disclaimed in the contract. "E. AirTran will not provide or reimburse passengers for expenses incurred due to delays or cancellations of flights. " Reason #19 that low fare carriers are low fare carriers.

3) What about getting me home?

A) My favorite clause in the contract."AirTran will endeavor to transport the passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch, but times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. " Note if he agrees to MKE as the destination, he'd get no compensation for the return, he agreed to the change. If he walked to another airline from ATL, he should get refunded for the failure to fly ATL-MSP.

Translation: Three days late is fine.

So. Legally, you've got nothing. So, let's look at practicality.

I'm assuming that MSP is home. Advice may be wrong otherwise.

The favorite answer of many is Southwest. Which doesn't fly to anywhere is Georgia, Minnesota or Wisconsin. So it's not useful here.

AirTran hubs at ATL, MKE and MCO. This is why they can easily get him to Milwaukee, it's a hub connect. However, there's no MSP-MKE route, so they can't get him the rest of the way from there. As a low cost carrier, they have no ticket share agreements with anyone, so they can't walk him to another carrier without paying full fare, which is why they won't.

So:

Amtrak is actually useful here. Take a train from the Airport (Yes!) to downtown, then the Empire Builder to MSP. Problem: Long trip, listed as 6 hours. Money unknown.

Buses doubtless run. Long trip, money unknown, may not run from Airport.

The trick here is finding another city that connects ATL and MSP on Air Tran. Answer: MCO, TPA and MDW.

He should ask "Can you route me through MDW (Chicago Midway) to get me home." It will be a longer flight, hell, he'll go the wrong way, but if it gets him home today, he wins, right? If that doesn't work, point out that MCO (Orlando) and TPA (Tampa Bay) also have flights to MSP, so, if they can get him to one of those three cities, they can then get him all the way to MSP.

That's about the best I can do, with limited info. The important thing -- he's at the mercy of whatever gate or ticket agent he talks to. Be nice, be polite -- be firm, but be polite. If you can get the GA on your side, they can work miracles, but if you decide to be a dick, they will *gladly* stand by the rules that say you don't get home until Friday.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

And this is why B. wants Erik to be his travel agent. :-)

K.

[thorintatge.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I did, in fact, ask about flights through Chicago, and the utterly weary gate agent (to whom I had been nothing but polite, and who had given a quick and confusing speech to everyone trying to get to MSP) said "Did you not hear me I said I had checked all of your options." I have a feeling the other connecting cities weren't going to work either.

If I'd been traveling alone, I probably would have taken Megabus from Milwaukee. My companion and I spotted a Megabus on the road, as it happened.

I've learned from this experience and from the various advice posts. I feel like a more experienced traveler now. That's the bright side.

[sffilk.livejournal.com]

tell him to tell airtran that he will invoke Rule 120.20 and notify the FAA of the situation. Airtran should have arranged to have him on a flight within 2 hours or would have to pay a certain amount. Since they didn't do that, what I would suggest when he gets home is contact Christopher Elliot through www.tripso.com, explain the situation completely and see what he can do. Oh, Rule 120.20 is the old "Rule 240." This applies to Airtran if it is a certain type of commercial carrier.

What he should also do when he gets home is to contact the local media and politely let the media know what happened. If it's like most commercial organizations, Airtran will want to do whatever it can to stifle negative publicity. If you don't believe me, check United's reaction to leaving 110 passengers stranded in Cheyenne or Denver a few Decembers back when the information made USA Today.