So much information and yet so little...

[dreamshark]

Information on how to vote is everywhere, to a fault. But it's all the same rather vague information over and over, never the answers to what I want to know. I finally got the answer to my question on how "Early in person voting" actually works from someone who had done it. I still can't find the answer to another extremely simple question. Maybe one of you knows?

When are the results of absentee (mail-in/early voting) ballots reported? 
The only answer I can find to this is that the ballots are "counted on election night after the polls close."

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN??? 

It seems pretty clear that the ballots are tabulated and pre-processed as they come in. That means, I think, that the outer envelope (if any) is removed and the signature envelope is processed. The signature and magical ID number on the outside are verified in some fashion and the vote is registered in a database that will make it impossible for the same person to vote again on election day. So far so good. 

Then I assume that this envelope is removed, leaving the inner "secrecy" envelope.

Then what? Is the secrecy envelope opened immediately, or is that left until after the polls close?

When is the ballot actually fed into the machine that reads the vote? Are bleary-eyed employees up all night  frantically feeding all these ballots into the tabulation machine after the polls close? Or are they actually read into the machine at an earlier point and then at 8 pm on Nov 3 someone hits the "TALLY" button and all those votes are immediately registered?

This matters because of the "Blue Shift" phenomenon. If, as expected, Republicans are more likely to vote in person, early results will look like Republicans are winning until all the absentee ballots are counted. If that takes a significant amount of time - even hours - it will lend credibility to Trump's expected strategy of claiming that the election was "stolen" when he ends up losing. 

I believe that a couple of people who read my journal might be in a position to know how the process works. If so, could you please enlighten me? Thanks.

Comments

meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[redbird]

What I know is this:

In most states (maybe all) the ballots aren't actually opened and counted until Election Day. I think that's until the polls close (so 8 p.m. in Massachusetts, 9 in New York, whenever the last mail is delivered in Washington state...).

And then, yes, they may count the ballots in the order of arrival. When I lived in Washington, the blue shift was large enough that an incumbent Seattle City Councilman gave a victory speech election night, and then congratulated his opponent on her victory two weeks later.

In a number of states, any election-night results will be tentative, because ballots have to be postmarked by Election Day, but will be counted if they arrive some number of days later. In Massachusetts, this year, it's three days later--except there's another, later deadline for absentee ballots from serving military members overseas.

And, federalism being what it is, every state makes its own rules. I don't know offhand what rules apply on Indian reservations.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[dreamshark]

Right. I'm trying to figure out how Minnesota does it. Part of the confusion is figuring out what "count" means. It sounds like in Massachusetts, "counting" actually DOES mean an army of poll workers up all night feeding the ballots into tabulating machines.

I am very much against the push going on in many states (including mine) to expand the window for accepting absentee ballots. I don't think it's too much to ask that people who want to do it get their ballots dropped off or mailed well before the election. In Minnesota you can drop off your ballot in person ON THE DAY OF THE ELECTION if need be, so there's really no excuse. IMHO, pushing the window so a few more people can wait until the last minute to get their ballots in is not worth the damage done by delaying the results for a week.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[pameladean]

Here's a link to the Secretary of State's website describing the treatment of absentee ballots.

https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/how-elections-work/absentee-ballot-process/

To answer your most urgent question, election judges are allowed to begin running absentee ballots through the voting machines two weeks before the election. However, ballots that arrive up to seven days after Election Day will still be counted as long as they're postmarked on or before Election Day.

P.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[arkuat]

This is accurate for Minnesota.

I will add that the fourteen-days-before is a variance to allow for covid19: the usual practice before this year was to begin counting the ballots one week before election day, and I forget how many days after they allowed for late (but postmarked on time) mail-in ballots to trickle in, but it was less than a whole week.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[laramie]

I'm glad to hear they can start counting two weeks before the election; that should help considerably. I know a lot of us have already voted.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[marahmarie]

There wouldn't be any "damage done" if Trump and possibly other like-minded candidates weren't so clearly prepared to lie about what it means, so saying the window shouldn't be expanded is giving into fear, which is exactly what him, his minions and other like-minded moonbasers and even candidates hope we'll all do.

He doesn't want the window extended? Extend it another month. Doesn't like that? Another two months. Don't have all the ballots counted by January? Oh, well. Leave him on tenterhooks, stewing in his own juices. Because screw him. What he's saying is not rooted in reality and makes a farce of everything we're trying to do here.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[dreamshark]

I would rather have him out of the White House without requiring a full-fledged armed revolution against a coup.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[marahmarie]

Well, I'd like our votes from mail-in ballot to count and not be negated by the Supreme Court (tell me what good a revolution will do anyone then) and I'd like you and other well-meaning folk to not have to risk your lives and/or get sick or die just to cast a vote the only "correct" way tRex thinks we can do so, unless there's an R after our names in the voting records, in which case our voting by mail is just fine with him. Screw what he thinks.

I say look out for yourself - so if that means voting by mail is the safest choice then do so, because considering what I think he might pull on or after Nov. 3rd there's little point to risking your life for it. //end my opinion

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[dreamshark]

It's not much of a risk, IMHO. I think I told you about my experience voting in the primary. 5-10 minutes in a large, well-ventilated room with a handful of masked people. My contact with the voting judge was literally a matter of seconds as I gave my name and picked up my ballot. I filled out the ballot at a little booth with nobody within 20 feet of me, walked over and inserted it into the tabulator, and walked out the exit door (which was standing open to let fresh air in).

YMMV. And probably does, considering the state you live in. Voting in Minnesota is quick and easy. The precincts are very small, so the polling places are not crowded (at least at the time of day I usually go) and the process is streamlined.

Caucuses, on the other hand, would be a death trap in times of pandemic. I do usually attend my precinct caucus, even in off years when not much is going on. But probably not next spring unless things get a lot better really fast.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[marahmarie]

Yeah, considering the state I live in, it's a mess. Cases are up 50% statewide.

Another thought: not all states have early voting; in those that do, it's still up to voters to get to the polls while they're in good health. One can think to themself: "Oh, I'll vote in person earlyish or else by Nov. 3rd" then get struck down with a bad case of COVID and how do you go to the polls then?

Even masked to the gills and even asymptomatic at that it's still criminally irresponsible to do so. Not to mention one might be too unwell to even put themself through it.

All of which is just another reason I'm such an advocate for voting by mail - you can get the ballot then not use it if you decide to vote in person, but at least the option's there if you get sick or some other crisis keeps you away, or whatever.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[dreamshark]

And that's what I did. I filled out my absentee ballot today, sealed it inside its 3 magical envelopes, and showed my husband where I put it. If for some reason I can't vote on Nov 3 he can drop it off for me at one of the ballot collection boxes.

Re: meta: there isn't one answer, but fifty-one

[marahmarie]

Nothing like thinking ahead. That's awesome \o/

A state-by-state answer

[redbird]

This list of when each state starts counting ballots turned up in my email this morning:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f73Q33qek37TjD9J8-yNf-gWkrYVHby6dr_z6UzYgAc/edit?link_id=12&can_id=035865608d9f518c3151907f6f0b7348&source=email-indivisible-acton-weekly-newsletter-october-6-2020&email_referrer=email_955542&email_subject=indivisible-acton-weekly-newsletter-october-13-2020

Re: A state-by-state answer

[dreamshark]

Wow, EXCELLENT chart! Thanks for the link.